Barbara: Okay. All right, so we’re here talking today with Ken VanLuvanee, Facet Life Sciences, my first client right out of design school. Really excited to be talking to you. We’re gonna dive right into the questions. So take me back to when you were founding Virtual Regulatory Services. What was happening in your world? What made you decide you needed to invest in design and branding?

Ken VanLuvanee: So, Virtual Regulatory Solutions.

Barbara: Oh, solutions. Sorry.

Ken VanLuvanee: It’s all good. Look, we work in a world that requires professionalism and requires consistent messaging. Without that upfront, our credibility was gonna be questioned from the very beginning. So there was no question about whether we needed this as a way to open up a conversation with somebody that established a baseline of professionalism right from the beginning. This was a serious organization. Even though it was still a startup, there was something there. And getting the imaging and branding right to begin with is one of those first steps forward.

Barbara: So we met through karate. Our kids were training together. I’m curious at the time, what made you think this is a relationship that could turn into a working partnership or that I want to give Barb a shot at this brand?

Ken VanLuvanee: Look, some of it was just kismet, but I knew you just completed design school. I knew you were opening up your own shingle. I also know how hard it is to get a business off the ground, especially getting that all-important first client. So me with now my second startup and you with your first, it provided an opportunity for us to essentially help each other, and these are values that I believe in and have reinforced for years.

Barbara: Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate the shot that you gave me because I definitely learned a lot about working with a real company right out of the gate. And it was a really important validation of what it was that I was trying to do.

Ken VanLuvanee: I appreciate the credibility of it. Cool.

Barbara: So we’re shifting from Virtual Regulatory Solutions, when did you realize the brand needed to evolve?

Ken VanLuvanee: So VRS was the right concept. The idea was to focus on smaller companies with an appropriately scaled services and technology package. It was the right concept executed in a less than optimal way. Our messaging wasn’t what customers were looking for, and it didn’t actually reflect what we did as an organization. In fact, quite the opposite, Virtual Regulatory Solutions presented something to our customers that they didn’t think they needed at the time. So not only did it not reflect what we could actually do for them and what we were doing, it actually turned them off. So we knew we needed an updated name, we needed updated messaging that aligned much better with our mission. So message and mission needed to line up.

Barbara: Yeah. I can remember sitting in your kitchen with Monique and Lisa and workshopping names, and Facet was one of the many ideas on the table. What do you think made that one stick?

Ken VanLuvanee: So one of the things that drove the name change was a recognition that we were doing several things for our clients, not just reg affairs. We are at our heart an FDA regulatory affairs company, but we actually do broad-scale therapeutic and diagnostic development support. Each of the aspects of what we brought to the table was a facet of therapeutic product development, and that’s really what led to the name selection. And when it came out, and I remember this pretty vividly, everybody was like, “Hey, that’s not bad. That really does fit”. We all agreed that was something that was gonna better align with our messaging and better reflect not only what then VRS, now Facet could do, but also gave us the ability to define other aspects of therapeutic product development and create more facets to the facet gem that we were beginning to form.

Barbara: So looking back on 13 years of working together—campaigns, websites, case studies, some kind of silly campaign marketing choices from time to time—is there a project or moment that stands out for you?

Ken VanLuvanee: Honestly, there’s a couple, and for me, especially as my role has evolved as I get more and more focused on culture and the things and the stories that support that which I think truly makes us unique. So there are three things that come to mind to me that reflect different aspects of Facet and Facetness. The first one actually goes back to pre-Facet. In the VRS days, we worked with a company before they were a company that had a game-changing therapeutic, but had no idea what to do and had made a whole bunch of assumptions about things. We were able to come in and look at what they had, and recommend a pathway to them that was beyond anything they could have possibly imagined. It saved them millions upon millions of dollars and got their diagnostic product on the market three to four years earlier than they were originally planning. One of my friends got that diagnostic and is alive because that diagnostic did a better job of detecting his cancer and showing the oncologist how to go after it. You can’t beat that. That’s a very Facet way of approaching things.

We’ve also supported employees in multiple ways through all sorts of personal crises. There are two ways to look at your relationship with employees. One of them is to look at them as resources that produce things, and the other is to look at them as people. We choose to look at them as people. And again, these are things that we see as a very Facet way of doing things. The other thing we do that I think is truly different with us, especially a company of our size that kind of aligns with that differentiator, is we support multiple ultra-rare disease charities. Some of these are family foundations, but essentially, these are all people who are looking for help for diseases that, the phrase they use is “are too rare for anyone to care”. We support them with both our expertise and our treasure because these are ways that we think we can do things differently. And our industry and what we do is far too special for us to not be heavily engaged that way.

Barbara: Yeah, it’s one of the things that keeps me most excited about working with you and with Facet. When I talk about the core group of people that I serve, it’s people that I qualify as changemakers, and they’re doing things differently. They care very much about people and the impact on people, and that’s 100% your brand, your values, what you do, why you do what you do.

Ken VanLuvanee: I agree. Yeah. I say all the time, businesses don’t do business, people do business. I think that’s important.

Barbara: So your industry is not known for being quirky or fun in general. But from day one you wanted Facet to look and feel different. Why was that important to you, and how does that reflect how you solve problems differently?

Ken VanLuvanee: Yeah. So our industry is mired, and I use that word on purpose, in SOP culture. Everything has to be done the way that it was done yesterday. And there are places where SOP is both good and mandatory, but it also leads to this tunnel vision of, “This is the only way to do things because it’s how we did it yesterday”. And when someone is critically challenged, that’s what they go to. “This is how we did it yesterday”. And that works at a big pharma scale. I’m of the opinion that it doesn’t work at all anymore. But certainly for our customers who are looking to bring new novel-type therapies and novel approaches to things, oftentimes there are places where there is no regulatory precedent, there is no SOP to hang your hat on. You have to bring new thoughts and new concepts to the game. So building a culture that supports that out-of-the-box creative thinking, looking at the end objective and how do I solve the puzzle that gets me to the end of it, rather than looking at how we did it yesterday. You’re not gonna build that type of thinking and support that type of risk-taking in an organization that values buttoned-down, the same as yesterday results. Developing an organization that has a little bit of quirk and a little bit of that tongue in cheek to it, I think culturally reinforces, “I have the support of the organization to think about this differently,” and that’s the only way we can do for our customers what our customers need of us, and that is one of the things that helps us be a differentiator.

Barbara: So we experimented a lot over the years looking at those hilarious stock photo guys for Gemstone, some different campaign approaches trying to inject some humor into a notoriously serious industry. What do you remember about that season of trying things and what, if anything, did we learn?

Ken VanLuvanee: Look, it was fun. I think what we learned is that people like to laugh. We know, and I know this for a fact because people reached out to me directly, the images got people’s attention. It made them laugh. They saw them, they recognized them, they engaged with them. I think the other thing we learned is that doesn’t always translate into meaningful conversations, and it doesn’t translate into contracts, and it doesn’t translate into revenue. We learned that people value funny, and that’s okay. But they often appreciated it only for the entertainment value. But that willingness to be different, that willingness to say, “Hey, let’s give this a shot and see what happens,” that’s very Facet.

Barbara: Yeah. Awesome. As Facet grew, your needs started to outgrow what a boutique studio like mine could handle alone, and a lot of partnerships end there. We found ways to keep working together. And so a little uncomfortable question to ask, but what made you want to keep me involved?

Ken VanLuvanee: Yeah, look, I think it is a gut feeling, but not everybody gets us. What we term as Facetness, our individual culture, is truly unique. I’ve never come across another organization, and as much as I would love to claim credit and go, “This was a plan. We went to develop this all along”. Yeah, we went to develop a little bit of a snarky organization that could be creative, but the culture is something that kind of evolved, and everyone who was involved in this has been a contributor, yourself included. So one of the things I’ve learned is that when we find someone who gets us, stick with that person. My relationship with you and the studio has been less about looking at this focused thing or this type of output and more saying, “We understand what’s at either end of this relationship,” and it’s just a matter of morphing it into a different type of output at that point. That’s, again, very consistent to me.

Barbara: Yeah. So one of the things I noticed about the transition was as you brought in the agency that had more of the capacity and that Facet appropriately needed, you did bring me in as a longtime internal resource, which I appreciate. And obviously, I’m sharing resources, giving those new folks what they need to be successful because I want Facet to be successful. But how did you think about that transition?

Ken VanLuvanee: So as we got bigger and my role went from being more strategic and less tactical, I realized that reinforcing culture was not just a nice to have fuzzy thing. It was actually critical. And culture, as we are increasingly learning, is our differentiator in the market. It’s how we explain to people we’re different, it’s how we deliver on that difference, and it’s how we work with our people internally to ensure that difference comes up on a routine basis. I also recognized that I couldn’t do it alone and I needed some additional help. Your past experience with Facet and your ability to get Facetness and understand who we are made that a logical extension. Our needs for outside advertising and marketing had outgrown what you could do. But it didn’t change the fact that there was value you could continue to help us with in Facet. It was just a matter of changing what those things looked like.

Barbara: Yeah. I think you actually anticipated my next question a little bit. So because these days we’re working on culture and internal branding, employee engagement, onboarding, the intranet, which we affectionately call Mos Eisley, the gathering place for the universe’s scum and villainy, right?

Ken VanLuvanee: Yep.

Barbara: So you’ve started to talk about what’s shifted for you as a leader in terms of prioritizing internal work as much as external marketing. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Ken VanLuvanee: Yeah. When we were smaller, we all essentially had the same experiences at Facet, and we had those experiences because we all worked on the same projects. Everybody could go back to what we did last week and what we did last week was all the same. As we got bigger, more people came in, they brought more experiences. Not only were we doing multiple things in parallel where there weren’t always those same, “Hey, we’re all doing the same thing together,” touch points, but those experiences that people brought into the organization, they brought different baselines with them as well. So what we needed to do was create a program that explicitly talked about why we were different in every way and why those differences matter. And I don’t like using the word codify ’cause that’s not the right way to think about it, but how do we build something that reinforced that in a very fuzzy way, a core that has the ability to be interpreted in multiple ways around it. By developing an internal branding campaign that explains Facetness, explains those approaches and how they apply both to our customers and to our relationships with our employees, we can provide that common touchstone. Anyone who touches Facet in any way gets this sense that, hey, this company is different, and they get that sense in a very common way. That’s especially true with an organization like ours that’s growing fast and is geographically dispersed. If we don’t have that common thread or that touchstone that everyone can touch and hang on to, we tend to fall apart into different tribes and that doesn’t translate into an effective organization, particularly one that grows.

Barbara: Right. Okay, so last couple of questions. Looking back, 13 years is kind of a long time for anything. And most creative partnerships don’t last that long. What do you think has kept this one going?

Ken VanLuvanee: Nah, it’s easy. Part of it, it’s been fun and it’s been productive. Our culture is unique enough that it’s hard for people to grasp. You get that part. So when we decide to move, we do it together. There tends not to be a lot of arm wrestling and having to explain. It just makes sense. So even as the relationship has evolved and pivoted, it’s one that’s been based on alignment over a long period of time and I value that constancy and consistency.

Barbara: Thank you. If we’re doing this interview again in 20 years, what do you hope has changed?

Ken VanLuvanee: I hope we’re doing it from my fishing boat and I’m retired. If we’re doing this in another seven years and I’m working full-time at Facet, I’ve done something really wrong. And having said that, I hope that organizational dynamic exists, even if different people are driving different aspects of the relationship. I think BlackBerry gets Facet and vice versa. And if we do this right, it really shouldn’t matter who the people are that are interacting because the organizations get it, that ethos connects and allows us to continue to work together.

Barbara: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much. Anything else to add? You don’t necessarily have to have anything else to add, just any closing comments…

Ken VanLuvanee: You missed a question.

Barbara: I did skip it ’cause I felt like you already answered it.

Ken VanLuvanee: Okay. That’s fine. I wanted to make sure.

Barbara: Yeah. Thank you. Sometimes as I get through the interview real time, I’m like, “Oh, we’ve already kinda talked about that”. Did you want… Do we still do it?

Ken VanLuvanee: It’s all good. Look, this is about you, so I’m cool. If you got what you wanted, I’m a happy camper.

Barbara: Yeah. Let me pause the recording.