Barbara: All right. I’m here today with Sharif, and I’m excited to be talking to you about the ways that we’ve worked together. And we’ll start at the beginning, which is we met early days when we were working for a mutual client. And just wondering, what do you remember those early days before either of us knew we’d end up in a long-term collaboration?

Sharif: It’s actually funny ’cause I’ve done like a whole deep dive of the content I’ve done. Like I went through all my photos from the past, and my favorite part of going back was checking out my archives on Instagram, seeing all the work that I was doing, like leading up to working at Hands from the Heart. And I remember when I first… I was looking for somewhere to work, and I was also starting the business at the same time. I was just trying to find somewhere where I could be a part of a team and learn what it’s like to be a team member, as opposed to like just running my business in YouTube University and Google University. I wanted to see what it was like to collaborate. So that was where my like mindset was. So like I was just being a sponge in there. Okay, how does… how are their systems? How does content get delivered? Like how many hands does it go through? Like the approval process, stuff like that. So I was just like in super student mode, and it was at that time ’cause I’ve never worked a digital marketing position, like an official digital marketing position, I would say. That was pretty much my mindset, like just growing and learning, and just looking at my Instagram archives. I was like posting every day, like motivational stuff. And yeah, I think I had one client during that time when I first started working at Hands from the Heart. So it was… I was just heavier to learning at that point. That was what my mindset was.

Barbara: Makes sense. Makes sense. That’s a good way to approach the work.

Sharif: Yeah.

Barbara: At what point did it shift from for you and me, we work at the same place, to we should actually collaborate? I know that we both had to choose that, but I’d like to hear it from your side.

Sharif: I was thinking, I was like, I don’t really remember how it happened exactly. I just think at Hands from the Heart, we were working kinda side by side on stuff ’cause you knew the brand. I think you built and designed the brand pretty much. I was working with you on what was good to post just looking for direction. And I really appreciated that time ’cause I was able to learn a lot from you during those times, so it was just very cool. And I think, I don’t know what switched, but I think maybe when we met in person, that’s probably when it switched. We met at some seafood place, I think, in King of Prussia.

Barbara: Yes. Oh my gosh.

Sharif: I think that’s when it shifted ’cause I think we already had a really great relationship, and we met in person and that made it stronger. And then we started collaborating. I know we were doing like the branding and stuff like that. But I think our relationship just naturally grew and happened that way. Probably I’ve shared with you that I also was like trying to grow a business as well. But I don’t know. It was a long time ago.

Barbara: I know, it’s a really long time ago. And it’s funny about, like, when you recall that meeting, I remember, it’s just funny insight into how my head works. You’re a similar age to my daughter, and she’s a teeny tiny person. In my head, everyone who’s her age is also a teeny tiny person. So when I met you in real life, I was like, “Oh my gosh, he’s so tall.” Taller than I expected. But I do, I think I remember we started with some like really supportive collaborations on that, like helping me get things published for my portfolio and those mock-ups, and then we’ll get to some of the other stuff. But so talking about your business, how do you like to say it? So you have Build Real 215. Do you just say Build Real Philly? Or is it Build-

Sharif: No, I say Build Real 215, and it was funny reading back that question ’cause I remember when that clicked.

Barbara: Yes. We’ll get to that too. You have your own mix of web video marketing, and I’ve got Wild Blackberry Studio, and we overlap in some places for sure, but we really diverge in some others. And so I’m curious what you think about how we’ve ended up as a good partnership rather than competitors.

Sharif: I think, to be honest, I don’t know. ‘Cause I grew up very competitive. I was blessed to grow around a bunch of other boys that were my age. And we were all competitive in everything; running, jumping, football, basketball, bike riding, everything. It’s funny as I got older I didn’t really look at competition like the same. It became internal and not so much external. I always was competing with myself. I think also I knew you were way more experienced than me. You had a lot more design skills and everything like that. So I could not approach it that way, like we were competition even if I was that type of person. But I don’t know. I never really see people as competition anymore. Unless we’re actually playing a sport. But I think we just built a positive business relationship. And I never really looked at it that way, to be honest.

Barbara: Yeah. I think for me it’s like the universe of the work that’s available to us is so large we don’t need to fight over it, right? There’s plenty to share, and I know you’ve also been happy to share and invite me into projects too. I’m thinking of that specialized food company in Philly, and the web project there. I don’t know, any specific memories about that or why you thought “Hey, I’d like Barbara to come in and help with the design for that website”?

Sharif: It’s actually, it’s pretty funny. It’s kinda like some of the stuff that we talked about before, like the imposter syndrome. Not feeling good enough. I think it was definitely a fear at first. “Oh my God, this is such a grand project. I don’t know if I can handle it.” As well as when I was discussing with them what they wanted with the project and I saw the branding and I saw where it could go, I was like, “Barbara can really do some great work with all the colors that you guys are already working with.” So that’s where my head was at. Partly “I don’t know if I can handle this all by myself.” And two, I knew it was gonna be a long-term partner, so I wanted the best product, wanted to get the best people to make the product. And you are the best person I felt like to create a great design for that brand.

Barbara: Thank you.

Sharif: So that’s kinda where my mindset was. Like, it’s kinda still like that, but it’s getting small. The fear part is getting smaller, but yeah, I just love collaboration. I’ve always been a team player, team guy. So I think that’s where my head is.

Barbara: I’m with you with the imposter syndrome stuff, right? Because that kind of never goes away. You just learn how to be with it and keep it in its right place, because I think it’s also what keeps you open to learning new things and acquiring new skills, right? Learning from other people. And I also love collaboration. I think that the end product is so much better when you have multiple smart, creative people working on a thing than just trying to do that in isolation. So now, like what we’ve been focusing on lately is I hire you for social media programming. I send Squarespace work your way when my clients need it. For you, how has that working relationship evolved since we started?

Sharif: I think it kinda started more task-based stuff. And now it’s becoming more creative like I’m able to really have fun, and it’s kinda like an open canvas for me to create now. And I think that comes with time and building trust and working together over the years. And I’m glad it’s happening that way. But yeah that’s really I think the biggest part for me is the trust building and being able to design projects where there aren’t really as much guardrails anymore. It’s “Here’s the objective. Create something great.” And I think that’s where I really shine best. Definitely great. Evolving in the right direction.

Barbara: We have regular planning calls and we go on a lot of side quests on those calls. What’s the silliest or most ridiculous tangent we’ve gone on that ultimately made it into the content? Can you remember a good one? We’ve had some great ones.

Sharif: See, that was a tough question. There’s so many. But first thing that comes to my mind is definitely the SpongeBob stuff. Like the random endless SpongeBob conversations that seem to always lead back to that. I think there was a time where we shared a moment and we were talking about how you used to watch I think it was Avatar with your kids. That was a great moment. And I think it’s just ’cause, I feel like I’m a mature person, but I’m always gonna be a kid at heart. Always gonna wanna feed my inner kid. So it’s definitely those tangents like for sure. But there’s so many.

Barbara: The one with the iPod Shuffle where I’m…

Sharif: Oh my gosh yeah, there’s just so many great random moments that like work that I just love.

Barbara: Yeah. You have to bring play into it, otherwise why are we doing it? You hinted at this earlier, this is hilarious. So you had your brand name BuildReal 215, and it took me probably like a year to realize that it meant BuildReal Philly, ’cause it’s the area code (for those of you who don’t live in the area). What was that like on your end, like watching that unfold and click for me? I think that was one of our side quests on one of our calls.

Sharif: That was interesting too because for me, like 215 is so embedded in my identity. Like when you didn’t know it, it was hard for me to understand. Then I was like, “Oh I’ve been here my whole life. This is kinda different.” Like I remember even when I first adopted it, when I was a kid, it came from… Do you know who Meek Mill is?

Barbara: Yes.

Sharif: The rapper from Philly? So before he made it, he used to always say 215 after certain tracks and stuff like that. And I kinda took that with me, and I’m sure a lot of people in Philly take that with them too, like that 215. Some people do the 267 which is the other area code. But I’ma stick to the classic.

Barbara: Yeah. What’s hilarious is I actually have a 215 area code on my phone, but it’s a mobile phone, so it’s not anchored in a place for me, right? You know what I mean? And it’s just funny as a person who didn’t grow up there. But then just one day I was like, “I get it, finally.”

Sharif: Yeah. I remember when I was coming up with that name too, ’cause at first I went with my LLC name, which was Building Realistic Opportunities. Then I just felt like that was kinda long. We needed something shorter, and yeah, I just came up with the build and the real and that was like two one five. Trying to really plant my roots in the city, make a name for myself here. Eventually that might change. I don’t know the name, but…

Barbara: Build Real International.

Sharif: Yeah. Build International. Yeah, definitely something like that.

Barbara: Don’t forget your friends when you’re huge. So speaking of growth you just brought on your first contractor. Is that right? What does that milestone feel like for you?

Sharif: Yeah it was pretty good. But I had my brother doing contractor work first, and he did a good job, so I gotta shout him out. But he doesn’t really like this work. But he was my brother. I think he did it out of love for me. That was cool. But yeah, it’s just so huge because I’m just so happy about it. I think I’ve just overthought it so long. But yeah, it’s really huge for me ’cause it’s changing my mindset of where I see my business and changing what I consider goals. It’s like now it’s less about money or finances or stuff like that. It’s more about impact and creating something that lasts a long time. Just one of my favorite things now is getting people to do the oohs and the aahs when they see my work. That’s my favorite. But it’s really big and it’s only been one month, but it’s been great so far and I’m excited to keep it going. Really excited to see what me and Julie do in the future.

Barbara: Cool, and it does… from my own experience with that, it really does change you, change how you yourself have to approach the business. You go from the person who has all the hats to building trust with the other people that you’re working with, and then also what are the communication challenges. But also to shift from “Okay, what does this free me up to do or create in my business or for my clients?” What’s next? It’s a cool place to be, so congrats. So as your business is growing, what has been the biggest shift in how you think about work?

Sharif: I don’t know. It’s pretty deep. ‘Cause my whole mindset changed. Like I remember we talked about something similar like this before, and I was like, “I kinda always wanna be doing design work even if I do have a team.” And now it’s kinda changing, like I’m not sure if I always wanna do the design work. I’ll probably always be a collaborative in that, but I don’t see myself being super deep in it in the future. But besides that, I hope the work will always stay the same. Make sure it’s quality, making sure it’s what the customer wants first, even though it’s not what my portfolio may need. But yeah, I don’t know where it can go right now. Like it’s kinda open in a good way. Like I don’t know what can happen, and I’m excited, but I just don’t know what’s gonna happen. But it’s been good though. Like it’s a good feeling to not know what tomorrow will bring for the work that I deliver, but I’m excited to see what it’ll be, and I’m always looking to make it better. I hope that stays with me forever, that I’m always a student first. No matter if I have a team of 50 people, hopefully I’m still trying to learn something new, always be open to other people’s opinions no matter where they are in the hierarchy of the building or the job.

Barbara: Yeah. I think I hear what you’re saying and you’re in a place where you’ve just rounded a corner and you can see what’s happening right in front of you, but you can’t necessarily see all the way down to the end of the street or the next corner, right?

Sharif: Yeah. But it’s a good feeling walking down that street even though it’s “Oh, I haven’t been here before.”

Barbara: Yeah. So much. So you and I have had a pretty mutually beneficial relationship for a while. Do you have any advice for other creatives who wanna build this kind of a collaboration rather than just do transactional networking or sales?

Sharif: Yeah. Oh, man. It’s tough ’cause I don’t really like networking events ’cause it’s so much of that. It’s so much pretending to be something or positioning yourself to be up here. Like, more so now than probably before I’m very comfortable with just being myself, and that’s just quirky, nerdy guy who loves design, who loves family. But I guess my biggest advice would be be yourself and don’t be scared to be yourself. ‘Cause eventually, you’ll find your people. Just, you just gotta put yourself out there and not let bad experiences turn you into a bad person or make you not wanna take that leap anymore. And that’s something that I have to tell myself and push myself to go back out to more networking events. Yeah, it’s kinda cliche, but be yourself ’cause if you’re not yourself you’re gonna run into the wrong people. Now you’re one step behind.

Barbara: Yeah, agree. Agree. Okay, last question. What’s your favorite part of our working relationship that’s got nothing to do with the actual work that we do?

Sharif: It’s definitely the side quest. It’s the random yapping that we do about random things. Also learning each other. The similarities, the differences. Like that’s what I’m really enjoying a lot in life, like the differences in people. Like, where I’m working with a team now and I’m learning a lot about Italian culture, which is new to me. I’m enjoying it and I’m enjoying being able to share my culture with other people, and we’re just exchanging things like that. So that’s definitely the best part, like just human interaction with no gain or with no we’re trying to get somewhere. We’re just being humans.

Barbara: If people wanna work with you or look at your stuff, how do people find you?

Sharif: Yeah, so if they’re trying to work for me, they can find me on my website, buildreal215.com. They can check me out on Instagram. I have the same handle, buildreal215. Yeah, that’s probably the best place to reach me, Instagram and my website. I do web design. That is my focus, web design, web management, SEO, social media, and video editing. So yeah, that’s what I do.

Barbara: Thanks for being here with me today.

Sharif: Thank you for having me, Barbara. I really appreciate it.